Autor Wątek: Woda w nogach pasażera  (Przeczytany 9670 razy)

Offline frost84

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Odp: Woda w nogach pasażera
« Odpowiedź #15 dnia: Maj 31, 2016, 19:14:48 pm »
Widział sól czy nie widział, na 100 procent gnije. Każdy gnije, tylko te lepsze sztuki, "praktycznie bez rdzy" gniją po cichu, bez rzucania się w oczy właścicielom. Rdza może kryć się na podszybiu, tylko, że nie zobaczysz tego po zdjęciu zaślepki pod wycieraczką. Dopiero jak zdejmiesz całą szybę przednią, to się ujawni cała prawda, całą dobę, najpewniej w narożnikach i  stąd by była woda w lewym dolnym rogu, przy podłodze.
Jeśli uważasz, że to klima, to odpływ od strony kierowcy jest pod wykładziną po prawej stronie, mniej więcej na wysokości łydki nogi, którą wciskasz gaz do dechy. Łatwo go wyjąć i przeczyścić, tylko jeśli jest zatkany, to weź jakiś garnek, bo sobie zalejesz dywaniki.

Chyba trochę wykrakałeś bo z wstępnych informacji jakie mam od mechanika to jest jakaś rdza pod szybą i nie do końca szyba przylegała w jednym miejscu. Ponoć, żeby to dobrze zrobić raz na zawsze to trzebaby kokpit demontować więc na razie blacharz to zabezpieczy i uszczelni.

Naprawiał ktoś kiedyś gródź przednią? Wydaje mi się, ze to częsta przypadłość tego modelu.
XJ6 / XJ40 / 4.0 / 1991

Offline niewaskieauto

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Odp: Woda w nogach pasażera
« Odpowiedź #16 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2016, 13:39:31 pm »
Sprawdź ten odpływ z klimy leje się często pod nogi jak jest zatkany
by³a zielona bestia 300km s type 4.2  V8
by³ saab 95 2.3 turbo 220km
by³ citroen c5 3.0 V6 207 km
jest alfa romeo 166 2.5 V6 190 km
i kilka jaguarów do serwisu
bêdzie x350 super V8 400KM

Offline katar83

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Odp: Woda w nogach pasażera
« Odpowiedź #17 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2016, 17:36:38 pm »
Wersja angielska:

This is a straightforward job made difficult by Jaguars poor design of the bulkhead and their use of thin metal in this area. This description is for a battery in boot NON air conditioned car so please be aware that air con has not been taken into consideration here. I will also point out that the only difference is the two pipes through the bulkhead and the additional wiring and pipes on the heater box so this "how to" should benefit both aircon and non aircon but with slight differences.

Tools you will need include:

6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 17mm combination spanners
5/16" combination spanner
Star drive kit
8, 10 and 13mm sockets 3/8" drive preferred
Phillips screwdriver
Large flat head screwdriver
Mole grips
Oil seal pick hook
Heavy breaking bar
Medium weight ball pein hammer
Trim clip removal tool (side cutters work but invest in a good clip splitter for a fiver)
Fluid receptacle
Cable ties
Decent sized parts tray
Space, lots of space
Mig welder, cutters, mask, gauntlets and tin
A piece of 5/8" copper pipe 12" long that you can bend into a horseshoe shape
An extra pair of hands

Consumables required include:
A good quality brush on seam sealer and a 1" brush
A good quality rust converter
12 cant rail clips AND receiving grommets
Colour matched aerosol
Primer
Radio code

Make sure the car is in NEUTRAL with the handbrake on on level ground and chock the wheels.
Start by disconnecting the battery and make sure you have the radio code first.
Open the bonnet.
Identify two 13mm nuts on the bulkhead panel that secure the heater box through the bulkhead and douse these with WD40 regularly during the next hour or so. You will understand why later.
On the bulkhead driver's side using a 13mm spanner, remove the white clip securing the brake pipes. Repeat this on the passenger side.
Using an 8mm socket, remove the upper three bolts securing the wiper housing. Pull the big draught rubber from the edge of the bulkhead seam.
Using a flathead screwdriver, lift the wiper arm nut cover and remove the 17mm nut securing the arm to the linkage. Gently coax the arm and blade off taking care to keep your fingers away from the spring. Also take note of the parked position of the arm.
Remove the screws holding the scuttle panel (mixture of star drive and Phillips). Lift the scuttle panel and ease off the water supply pipes to the nozzles and unclip the power connections. Lift the scuttle panel away to safety taking care to avoid the windscreen.
Remove the top two securing screws holding the relay mounting panel on the passenger side using star drives.
Disconnect the wiper motor wiring.
Manipulate the relay mounting panel away from the bulkhead by about three inches.
Follow the path of the wiring loom under the wiper housing and lift this up to the topside. This helps to gain access to the bottom slide clips that secure the wiper housing.
Pull the 3 slide clips across to free the wiper housing. You will need some finger dexterity here as they are a shit to move. Other members have devised hooks to pull them across. I give them a tap with a decent sized breaker bar and they give without complaint but BE CAREFUL not to break anything if you use this method!
Remove the large nut securing the wiper spindle using mole grips. (I use mole grips here to avoid whacking the windscreen with a spanner, it means you take more care in this area.
Manipulate the wiper motor and housing away from the bulkhead and make safe. Keep all of the linkage parts together and in the correct order on the spindle.
From the passenger side, identify a 10mm nut securing 4 wires to the bulkhead. Remove this nut and release the wires.
On the drivers side, look down where the wiper housing has been removed and undo the two jubilee clips securing the heater hoses to the heater with a flathead screwdriver. Use mole grips to twist the hoses away from the pipes, it's fiddly but doable and won't hurt you hands! Using the copper horseshoe, attach the hoses and secure the clips. You will lose a little fluid but nothing to worry about. If you are a frugal person like me, use a fluid receptacle under the car to catch the loss.
Remove the two vacuum pipes attached to the heater by pulling them off gently.
Identify TWO 13 nuts and TWO 10mm bolts securing the heater box to the bulkhead and remove these. A word of warning here. The drivers side 13mm nut tends to seize and you risk snapping the bolt. This is by no means fatal but replacing the bolt means taking the heater apart and that job is HORRIBLE! So, take care here and use WD40 or similar combined with a little tightening and undoing work with the spanner.
Ensuring all the parts are away and arranged on your parts table close the bonnet and move inside. This is a good time for thoroughly washing your hands and drinking tea.
Moving inside the car, lift the armrest on the centre console and remove the chrome screw securing the restraint lever.
Remove the two screws securing the hinge and lift the armrest clear.
Inside the glovebox remove the centre cassette/valuables holder to reveal three Phillips screws. Remove the screws.
At the front of the glove box remove the two screws and lift out the cupboard. There will be a wiring connection for the alarm at the rear so disconnect this too.
Lift out the centre ashtray and remove the two wiring connectors below.
Remove the thin black plastic trim/spacer on the bottom edge of the ski slope.
Using a square cornered credit card, release the chrome gearlever surround clips whilst coaxing the trim upwards. There are one either side toward the front and one at the rear. Lift the trim and surround away. Look through the resulting hole to the rear of the ski slope and you will see two white plastic wing nuts. Remove these.
Lift the ski slope up from the rear and remove. It gets a little tight around the gear lever area but don't sweat it, it comes out with some friendly careful persuasion.
Identify the 6 Phillips screws securing the instrument pack and remove these. Draw the pack forward and disconnect the radio wiring, green and black power cables then make safe.
Using a trim clip splitter (or a large flathead screwdriver) prise the cant rail trims away from the A pillar back to the passenger rear door dowager straps on both sides. There are six clips on these trims and they ALL break upon removal. There is nothing you can do to save them so don't waste your time trying. New clips are available from Bresco in Loughborough at a cost of £9 a bag delivered.
Remove the screws securing the lower bolsters on both sides of the lower dashboard and take out the bolsters. There are plug clips on the upper side which need to be unplugged carefully using a clip splitter or a large flathead screwdriver. Whichever option you choose be careful not to damage the straight edge of the bolster as they don't fit correctly once they have been bent. Also remove the bottom airvent scoops from the heater box. These are secured using push fit clips with a centre pin. I use an oil seal hook tool to remove these and the I reset the clip ready for refitting.
Remove the carpets and underfelts from both sides of the cabin. Dry out if required (and it will be required!).
Here is where things start to get a little painful for anyone over 50.
With a Phillips screwdriver in hand, position yourself Dick Fosbury style over the drivers door sill with your head under the steering column looking up to the bottom of the instrument pack. Identify and remove the four Phillips screws securing the pack to the crashpad. Wriggle out and sit in the drivers seat with both hands on the instrument pod. Pull the pod upward and toward you until there is a gap big enough to get your hand in. Reach inside and click release the two pod wiring connectors and lift the pod clear.
Now using a flathead screwdriver, prise the centre airvent veneer away from the crashpad. It is secured by four push fit spring clips and, scary as it seems at the time, you can be quite forceful in removing this bit of wood! Don't scratch it though?
Moving to the passenger footwell. Look up and identify the two slide clips securing the relay plate. Release these clips and allow the plate to swing down. Locate FOUR black headed bolts (two either side) securing the airbag cover and undo them. There are also 4 gold coloured bolts that lie at 90 degrees to the black ones. Leave the gold ones nearest to the passenger door in place and tight. These black and gold bolts are neither 6 7 or 8 mm but a 5/16 ring spanner fits perfectly. If you haven't got one of these old school spanners use mole grips but be warned, they are tight and you are working near a bag that goes bang!
Tilt the air bag veneer and remove toward the centre of the car.
On the drivers side you will see ONE gold bolt with an 8mm nut secured to a gold bar. Remove the nut and push the bar away.
Look inside the centre airvent pocket and identify two gold coloured Phillips screw heads. Remove these.
At both ends of the dashboard you will clearly see TWO 13mm bolts that point toward the roof of the car. Remove these and ONLY these. The side ones stay put.
Using a flathead screwdriver, GENTLY ease out the crashpad end covers and swing them down through 90 degrees.
Now go to the centre console and slide this backwards to release the rear slide clip and lift away. Dependent on model you may have to remove seat switchpack wiring and extra cigar lighter wiring. Other earlier variants have a screw UNDER the rear heater direction panel which is particularly nasty to get at.
Drop the steering wheel to its lowest position.
Lift the crashpad up and away from its home position and disconnect the three multiplug connectors and the heater vacuum line twin connector.
With extra hands, lift the crashpad out of the car through the passenger door.
Remove the two 10mm headed bolts that secure the steering column to the upper dashboard. You will see a support bar that bolts from the dash point to the tunnel. Remove th lower tunnel bolt. The steering column will drop and it is awkward so beware!
Identify the two 10mm nuts on the front of the heater box securing two black support bars. Remove the 10mm nuts.
At the bottom of the black bars are two 8mm bolts securing both the black and gold bars to the tunnel. remove the 8mm bolts and the bars.
Remove the two long black plastic air ducts that travel from the heater box to to the rear of the centre console.
This next part requires some good concentration or photos if you are not good at memory tasks. Take care here as any mistakes or oversights will cost you dear in time and will shorten your temper by a lot!! Also this description WILL vary between models dependent on whether you have air conditioning or not.
Identify the wiring departing from the heater box and disconnect at the block connectors. There are several connectors here but try to remember where and what route these wires take. Photos are a good idea if you are unsure. There are also two blue vacuum pipes that travel east and west to the heater blower motors. Observe the path these take as it is important that these pipes go back the same way. If you get it wrong the pipes can become trapped or worse still severed. Imagine putting it all back together to find you have to take it all out again? I must stress the importance of the last 8 lines.
Moving on. Using a 3/8" drive ratchet with a double extension and 10mm socket, identify and remove the drivers side heater blower securing bolts. These are tucked up high on the dashboard scuttle panel but are easy enough to get at. Withdraw the blower taking care to disconnect the two multi plugs (one brown one white) and unhook the LARGE U clip securing the transfer pipe to the heater box. You should now be able to withdraw the heater blower and make safe. Try to keep the transfer pipe attached to the blower NOT the heater as this makes for easier refitting.
On the passenger side things are a little more tricky. Using a long extension bar and an 8mm socket remove the two 8mm bolts that secure the mounting plate for the relay packs. They are high up but you can see them if you look hard enough. Remove the lower 8mm bolt that secures the secondary relay panel and withdraw both to reveal the heater transfer pipe. Disconnect the transfer pipe from the heater box. The heater box is now free and can be withdrawn from the car through the passenger front door. Be careful not to spill the contents of the matrix over the upholstery!
At this point it is worth close examination of the passenger side bulkhead corners using a spike to probe for rot. If you are confident that the passenger side is good then there is no need to remove the passenger side heater blower and airbag. Personally, I think if you've managed to get this far you should remove the airbag and heater blower for peace of mind?
Leave the airbag wiring connected and remove the plate securing bolts using a 10mm spanner. Take you time around here just in case? Gently ease the airbag forward and remove the bottom relay cover to reveal the passenger heater blower. Remove the heater blower by removing the two 10mm bolts up at the scuttle. Carefully withdraw the heater blower and make safe.
Remove the eight round plastic sound proofing securing grommets from their pegs and ease the said material down and forward taking care not to obstruct a great big fat earth wire that runs across the car. (why they did this baffles the hell out of me?). You will now see the bulkhead in all it's rotten glory!!
At this point you have another decision to make. Is it bad enough to warrant cutting out or can it be patch welded? I will make that decision for you. Patch it. The bulkhead material is too thin and poorly constructed. As soon as you go near it with the mig attempting seam welds you will just blow holes through it. The only way to seam weld it is to remove the engine along with the brake and fuel lines and repair it from the engine bay. I will never do that kind of work as I have neither the time nor the desire (unless that Saturn Orange beauty turns up, then I may consider it?) to do so.
Use the mig on low and after careful measuring and cutting and protecting the brake pipes on the other side with a tin shield, start your bird poo weldathon. When all is made good cover your work with a high quality brush on seam sealer. I use Indasa products as I believe they are the best around, not cheap but very easy to apply and ultra long lasting. with a little care on application you can obtain a good finish.
On the engine side of the bulkhead things are undoubtedly not pretty. So, poke out what grommets are in the danger area, pull the brake pipes forward and restrain using cable ties. Use a wire brush to access the areas reachable and knock all the crusty stuff off. Use an oil seal pick hook to get under the lip and draw the hook along to remove extra rust flakes! This is not a nice job but it must be done. You will definitely cut your knuckles and blood will come but just get on with it. Once it has all been knocked back as far as possible, use a high quality rust converter in several coats to neutralise what is left. Again, I use Indasa products but Hammerite is just as good. Take your time here as you want to achieve a decent finish. It will NEVER be OEM standard because of where it is and the difficulties you will be confronted with in application (the engine is in the way!) but I do it like this. Use a one inch paint brush to thickly apply seam sealer to the treated areas using an upward movement ensuring the seam is filled. Go all along the bulkhead from left to right. There are two areas where access is denied but invention will get you past here. Once applied, use a pallet knife or even your finger (I use my hands so I can feel the stuff) to smooth the finish as best you can and allow to dry (12 hours is best). Once dry use a colour matched aerosol with a WD40 style pipe to CAREFULLY paint the whole area. Try to avoid getting overspray on hoses and pipes as this doesn't help to highlight the work you've just done. Allow it all to dry for a day and then the fun starts again! Refit all the grommets etc under the bonnet then using a strong gaffer tape and plastic masking paper seal off all the holes. Close the bonnet and doors, turn on the hose pipe and soak the thing around the screen area for a good 20 minutes. Look inside for telltales and mig any pin holes that result. Then water it again for another 20 minutes and keep going until it is watertight.
Once you are happy that there is no water ingress you will then be in a position to start refitting which, obviously, is the complete reverse of what you have just gone through!

Steve


Z xj40.com

I tu masz jeszcze kilka zdjec:
http://autoshite.com/topic/11485-xj40-rust-welding-a-cat-with-management-skills/page-2
Tak w ogole zdjecia które wkleilem wczesniej to te same auto. Stawiam ze u ciebie dziury sa dokladnie w tych samych miejscach pod skrzydlami :)
« Ostatnia zmiana: Czerwiec 01, 2016, 19:49:14 pm wysłana przez Choina »

Offline frost84

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Odp: Woda w nogach pasażera
« Odpowiedź #18 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2016, 18:45:06 pm »
Sam raczej tego nie będę robił, chodziło mi bardziej o koszty i czy rzeczywiście wymaga to demontażu kokpitu??
XJ6 / XJ40 / 4.0 / 1991

Offline dziadzol

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Odp: Woda w nogach pasażera
« Odpowiedź #19 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2016, 20:41:52 pm »
Ja to robiłem bez demontażu kokpitu, ale u mnie rdzy było niewiele i raczej powierzchniowo, woda ciekła właśnie przez odklejony narożnik szyby. Zdejmowanie kokpitu to już grubsza demolka, równie dobrze można rozebrać cały samochód, bo zawsze gdzieś jakiś parch się znajdzie, piaskować, zabezpieczać i malować od nowa, słowem budujesz auto od nowa.
Widział sól czy nie widział, na 100 procent gnije. Każdy gnije, tylko te lepsze sztuki, "praktycznie bez rdzy" gniją po cichu, bez rzucania się w oczy właścicielom. Rdza może kryć się na podszybiu, tylko, że nie zobaczysz tego po zdjęciu zaślepki pod wycieraczką. Dopiero jak zdejmiesz całą szybę przednią, to się ujawni cała prawda, całą dobę, najpewniej w narożnikach i  stąd by była woda w lewym dolnym rogu, przy podłodze.
Jeśli uważasz, że to klima, to odpływ od strony kierowcy jest pod wykładziną po prawej stronie, mniej więcej na wysokości łydki nogi, którą wciskasz gaz do dechy. Łatwo go wyjąć i przeczyścić, tylko jeśli jest zatkany, to weź jakiś garnek, bo sobie zalejesz dywaniki.

Chyba trochę wykrakałeś bo z wstępnych informacji jakie mam od mechanika to jest jakaś rdza pod szybą i nie do końca szyba przylegała w jednym miejscu. Ponoć, żeby to dobrze zrobić raz na zawsze to trzebaby kokpit demontować więc na razie blacharz to zabezpieczy i uszczelni.

Naprawiał ktoś kiedyś gródź przednią? Wydaje mi się, ze to częsta przypadłość tego modelu.

Offline Ojciec

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Odp: Woda w nogach pasażera
« Odpowiedź #20 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2016, 20:50:36 pm »
Demontaż deski to nic skomplikowanego, robiłem to osobiście chyba rok temu. Bez niczyjej pomocy, bez żadnych schematów, zajęło mi to ok 30-40min.
Tak że polecam to zrobić raz a dobrze a nie dziadować i od zewnątrz coś podklejać/zaklejać.
1992r - Jaguar XJR6 4.0
1988r - Jaguar XJS 5.3 V12

Offline dziadzol

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Odp: Woda w nogach pasażera
« Odpowiedź #21 dnia: Czerwiec 02, 2016, 10:37:18 am »
Kto mówi o dziadowaniu? Wszystko jest kwestią potrzeb. Jeśli usterkę da się usunąć bez rozbierania auta, to nie widzę problemu. 
Dla jednego zdjęcie kokpitu to 40 minut roboty i fajna zabawa, dla mechanika, do którego ktoś przywozi swoje auto może to być powód do podbijania ceny za usługę, nie mówiąc oczywiście o niebezpieczeństwie uszkodzeniu elementów albo zaczepów podczas demontażu, "bo inaczej się nie dało". Żeby było jasne - nikogo nie oskarżam. Tylko dobrze wiemy, że takie rzeczy się zdarzają, szczególnie, jak ktoś nie zna marki i tylko mu się oczy świecą na widok leapera i kasy, jaką można w związku z tym zażądać za robotę. A nie wszyscy posiadacze aut są mechanikami i stąd, jak rozumiem, są pytania kolegi, żeby się zorientować, czy nie jest nabijany w butelkę.   

Offline Ojciec

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Odp: Woda w nogach pasażera
« Odpowiedź #22 dnia: Czerwiec 02, 2016, 11:29:49 am »
Z zawodu nie jestem mechanike, przy aucie robię hobbystycznie.
Auta w tamtych latach były składane dość prosto więc nie ma problemu z rozbiórka .
Jesli koledze przecieka pod szyba to na 99% ma też już tam dziurę i żeby wszystko dobrze zrobić trzeba wyjąć deskę, wyciąc szybę. Wstawić łatkę wstawić szybę i deskę. Naprawa posłuży długie lata.
1992r - Jaguar XJR6 4.0
1988r - Jaguar XJS 5.3 V12